There is a large issue that was vetoed again by Dubya - stem cell research. I will be the first to admit that I don't know where I stand on this issue. I waffle back and forth, reading up, taking into consideration all aspects, and I still don't know how I feel about it.
If it were my kids, my parents, suffering from some disease that could be eased or even cured by stem cell research - the position changes. It's so personal, it's so hard to find that line between playing God and succeeding in medicine and science. A wise person once said to me that God gave us the ability to discover the science. God also gave us the ability to build the atom bomb, but I don't think His intent was Nagasaki and Hiroshima. So this, this is where I struggle.
But the position I would not take is Dubya's. This man is an ass of the highest order. And I know this is the second post in as many days about political issues, and I know the readers I have prefer it when the blog is light-hearted and funny, but I can't let this stuff pass...
"If this bill were to become law, American taxpayers would for the first time in our history be compelled to support the deliberate destruction of human embryos," Bush said. "Crossing that line would be a grave mistake. For that reason, I will veto the bill passed today."
"Destroying human life in the hopes of saving human life is not ethical, and it is not the only option before us."
So let me get this straight. Destroying human life to save human life = unethical. What about the 655,000 Iraqi civilians who have died for this war that means...oh wait...we don't know what it means. What does it mean??? Why are we there? And so help me if you say the "war on terror" I will drive to where you are and shake you until you stop saying that.
According to Dubya, we can't do embryonic stem cell research, even with the potential to SAVE hundreds of thousands of people from horrific suffering with debilitating diseases and afflictions. But we can kill 655,000 (or MORE, that's just an estimate) in this "war" that no one, not even the soldiers fighting it, can explain to me.
And this from a man who comes in as a governor from a state that engages in capital punishment, btw.
The hypocrisy of it all.
*Edited to correct my number of Iraqi citizens who have lost their lives to this war.
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I think the way the bill was written, it should be vetoed. It set no boundaries or perameters for useage or research and would receive government funding. That's like saying do what ever you want. Clone Saddam? Clone me? No, there has to be some restrictions. That's why many are going to cord blood banking. There are stem cells in the cord blood that are specific to the individual and relatives. Mind boggling, isn't it? Embrionic stem cells? I'm with you; the jury's still out.
I agree with you, Joy - that sometimes these bills are written in a way that makes them impossible to pass. But he's also said he would veto ANY bill that has to do with stem cell research as long as he's in the oval. And his quotes on the subject about the value of human life, while he has ordered a war that has placed NO value on human life...I find it insulting.
Rebecca, clearly you need a bigger platform. I think, in 5 to 7 years time, you need to get active in civil service and I'm not talking about cheering on someone's school board campaign. The State and Country need women like you to assume these positions in government. Whether or not someone agrees with you and your stance is irrilevent because you are at least standing up to be counted. That's more than a lot of us can say regarding these issues.
Has anyone seen that movie "
You've stumped me, Jimmer. You had me with Billy Madison in the previous post, but now I'm lost. I must not have seen it...whatever movie this is from. Please tell!
Oh Crap! I didn't even finish my post. I feel like a tool.
The movie I was asking about is "The Island" with Ewan McGregor and Scarlett Johansson.
Well, has anyone?
I have seen it...
OOOOOHHHHH...okay, so your previous post was YOU saying that to ME. I thought you were quoting something...
you seriously think I should run for something, Jimmer?? No - people don't like me. Well, not you guys...but I do rub people the wrong way.
And...then there are the skeletons...can't you hear the rattling? Nah...I'll just be my own little political evangelist trying to get people to vote and think about the issues and stop watching Fox News and reading pundits and get facts and formulate an opinion that matters.
And what news do you suggest I watch?
Hell, anything but Fox...
And I'm not talking about your local Chicago Fox news...
I'm talking about the actual Fox News Channel, home of O'Reilly and every Republican who's ever retired from office and needed a place to work.
Seriously. "We Report, You Decide." Whatever.
Obviously, Democratic platform here. There's really some good conservatives out there too.
Anonymous - I never said there weren't. I have conservative friends, conservative relatives.
I've even liked what conservative candidates have had to say about some issues...
And p.s. - the Dems are pushing for stem cell research...I'm clearly waffling...
I anchor myself to no platform. I search myself and educate myself to form my own beliefs.
But I sit to the left as I hold human rights, the separation of church and state (especially as it pertains to abortion and gay marriage), the importance of educating our youth, the belief in our judicial system, preserving our environment and the Bill of Rights most dear, while silmutaneously crossing my leg to the right as I want to preserve my right to keep and bear arms and try to fully understand the magnitude of stem cell research before I greenlight such a thing.
Come back and join in healthy debate...
Rebecca, I love you like a BBFF, but one question: Isn't Fox the station that American Idol is on?
I know it's snarky, but I had to ask. I think it's my t-shirt. I have on my solid black one that says SURLY across the front.
No, that's not snarky at all - Fox is the American Idol station, and I watch AI, but that's not the same thing (well, I'm sure they're owned by the same people) as the dedicated cable 24/7 Fox News Channel.
Do you really think the Republicans are pulling the strings on American Idol? If they did Elizabeth Hasselback would be sitting in place of Paula... :)
Oooooooh, IIIIIIII want a Surly t-shirt...
Did I ever tell you I got your article in the mail and I have your smiling face and that article tacked to my corkboard here in the office???
Probably not - I'm bad about that.
LOVED seeing it actually in print. Very fun.
Oh, you meant Fox News. My bad. (Is it still cool to say "my bad?" Cause I'm still using "get jiggy with it" and my husband laughs hysterically when I do. Methinks I'm getting old.)
Snarky comment retracted.
My proposition was to wallpaper an entire room with copies of the first printing, but Craig put the kibosh on that. Killjoy.
"My bad" is still all good in my book, but I think I'm "kickin' it old school" myself.
Snarkiness forgotten...
W IS A MOTHER FUCKER, sorry for you more gental folks out there, I will try to check it. I had to see the expression on the face of my patient and that of his family when this bill was and any bill presented will be vetoed. Heartbreaking to say the least. This family holds so much hope on him being able to move his body someday, that is truly is heartbreaking to sit there and watch those hopes get crushed by some stupid assed hillbilly (I can say that, I am one) I don't give a fuck what party does fucking what this is science not fucking politics, oh yeah, I am supposed to check myself. Did anyone out there know that you can do stem cell research without taking the life of anyone???? To the people out there with SCI (spinal cord injury) this is not about cloneing, this is about walking, moving an arm, feeding themselves, not having the secondary conditions which arise with SCI. Right now I can only say this, FUCK W, fuck his politics, and someday he will burn in hell and it's almost worth going to hell to watch, again, this is not Republican, Dem, not Conservative, Left or fucking right, it is a smoke screen. Oh, and if you are still reading while I try to put done any rational thought in my rant of rage, the BBC is the only news worth watching
After having slept on this, I have come to this conclusion: God has a plan for all of us, whatever happens in this world and to us as individuals is in His plan and NOTHING happens without it being in His plan, now, having said that, I will say this: The conclusion I have come up with is that God doesn't want Bush in charge of stem cell anything because he would only muck it up and He is waiting for Obama to get into office so he can do things RIGHT
Pea, see...this is what I'm talking about...it's scary for me when I think about it in terms of cloning and playing God - but then there are people like your client and I think about how much good could come from it...
What you're talking about is the cord blood vs. the embryonic stem cell? And if not, please tell me what you are talking about in reference to the stem cell research for SCI patients - I want to learn!
Yes, that is what I am talking about, in addition there has been examination of placenta blood as well, and if the science was allowed to continue, I am sure that there would more discoveries that would not involve the harming of anyone. I agree with the clone issue, I don't want to see that, that is some scary stuff. I don't see it in terms of playing God, only humans can be so bold as to think that they could. I believe that this issue (stem cell) has come to light because it was in His plan. We just have to wait for the right place and time.
My client's wife and daughter are off to the Hamptons to meet Christopher Reeve's two oldest children, Mr. Reeve's neurologist (sp?) and to network at a fund raiser for stem cell research. When they return on Monday, I hope to hear of the newest stide in stem cell research despite the dumb assed hillbilly.
As for you Black Eyed Pea, you should really consider doing some big time lobby work, you have passion my friend, not to mention you have a great time in Washington
Seriously, Has anyone seen the movie "The Island?" Whatever happened to playing the cards you were dealt. If everyone were to be "fixed" of any ailenment, how much quicker would the world implode itself? How much quicker would we run out of fossil fuels and more importantly food?
Seriously Part 2, What experiance does Obama have? He's a first term Senator. Senators don't control anything. I want someone to run this Country like a business in the best interests of the people. I am a conservative but don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that GW is doing that at this point. I also don't think this Country should be come completely consumed in "social services." We were the greatest Country in the world and now we can't stop fighting with ourselves over stuff like immigration and stem cell research. Bottom line: The Country is too partisian (sp?) and the only thing that will lead to is an eventual civil war...
On that note, why are we not governing the amount of children the U.S. Citizens are allowed to have?
The Obama comment was a joke.
Put yourself in someone else's shoes, if you did you certainly would be able to understand the hope in, perhaps not so much being cured, but the quality of life changing and improving. Tell you what, come with me to work tonight 3-11 and when we are done, we can go have a drink and discuss the "cards we are delt". Perhaps Jimmer, I am to close to the situation, can I honestly say I felt this way prior to getting to know someone it affects...Answer..
No, and I would hope that you can already see that the world is pretty damn close to imploding upon itself already so does that mean we have taken the correct course so far...Answer...No...Should the government be involved in science in the first place...Answer...No
The key to running a successful business to to know your business and when to stay out of what is not your business. The government does not have that capacity...Sorry
Don't tell me about first hand knowledge of people dying. I still miss my Uncle...
I am not telling you about people dying, far from it, if you feel that is what my comment was aimed at, please re-read it, and yes, if you are that sensitive as to read into something that is not there, please, be done with the subject
Whoa, there little Nelly's - let's all remember that it's hard to infer tone from written word.
I think Pea is right - it's harder to handle the cards as they're dealt when you're closer to the situation.
When talking about healthcare, Jimmer - stem cells now seem extreme - but not so long ago so did transplants, skin grafts, chemotherapy and penicillin, if you want to go there with it. Why is stem cell research, if you remove the embryonic part of it, any different? It's the natural progression of medicine. Of course you miss your uncle - but would you have advised him not to get the treatment he sought so that he could spend more time here because those are the cards he was dealt? Would you have lobbied against advancements in chemo? Please understand that I loved him, too - and this isn't being said with any other tone other than one pleading for understanding...how chemo to a cancer patient is the same as stem cells to an SCI or alzheimer's patient.
And I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it - I definitely get your point. It's one of the larger problems I have with this. People are meant to die. Period. We are not immortal, not as long as we walk this earth. An average life span used to be 65, now it's 75.
Realistically, our advancements in modern medicine have driven up the cost of healthcare, contributed to the insurance crisis, and destroyed social security. So is it worth it.
It's hard, it's really hard - you both have valid points. Make it a discussion, not an argument. That's what this was intended to be. It's why I started this post to begin with! This very discussion between the two of you is why I'm so damn conflicted!
Now kiss and make up, you two...I know I have very "passionate" friends, as Julie likes to say.
I for sure do not have a problem with The Jimmer, nor have I taken anything to heart, but I am not sure he got the jist of my post, made a knee jerk post to it and got offended, and if he want's to be done with the subject, let him, it hit an unresolved cord with him and I feel he has something to get off his chest that is not really related to the topic here, but I could be wrong.
XXOO Jimmer, come back if and when you want
"People are meant to die. Period. We are not immortal, not as long as we walk this earth. An average life span used to be 65, now it's 75."
Right on sister, I believe Dr. was supposed to die that night, and I know, as he tells me everyday, that he wished he would have, however, his spouse made the "choice" to give CPR and call the ambulance, who then made the "choice" of inserting a breathing tube, which then blew out his trach, then the medical staff made the "choice" of putting him back together. Once Dr.'s neck was broke, he had and has since had no choice, only hope, which with everyday subsides, and the quality of life is staggering not to mention the bills.
Believe me when I say, had he had a choice, he would be dead.
Oh Pea - you've told me that story before and it STILL breaks my heart.
The story brings up a myriad of other sensitive topics for future discussions.
WOW, there were some really great comments left for this post. I look at stem cell research as hope! Maybe it could even help with my MS???? Maybe it could help someone walk again???? Cancer????
If it is done correctly, I see lots of HOPE for lots of people.
I truly wish I could remember who said it, but I can't, but it was profound in my view... he said that to compare the use of fertilized eggs to destroying human life is to devalue everything it means to be human, everything that the human experience entails.
For me, there is no sitting on the fence about stem cell research. There is too much potential for what it could do right now for people I love, and in the future for me and for my children if genetics have anything to do with Parkinson's disease.
I meant to add, stem cell research is as much about quality of life as it is about prolonging life. Ideally we would all live healthy, active lives until the last year of our lives.
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